Comments on: Off with his head http://www.therandomoracle.com/2008/12/off-with-his-head/ now accepting queries. Thu, 12 May 2011 03:37:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: The Random Oracle http://www.therandomoracle.com/2008/12/off-with-his-head/#comment-84 The Random Oracle Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:49:52 +0000 http://www.therandomoracle.com/?p=248#comment-84 I think your greater contempt for rape or murder is based on disgust at the violence, which I share, but which should not be the sole criteria for the severity of the crime. Madoff's crime is a big deal and you can't brush it off as mundane. First, it's $50 billion. I know we're getting jaded with big numbers thrown about with bailouts and bankruptcies happening everyday, but $50 billion is an unimaginable amount of money to steal. Second, he STOLE the money. People lose money in investments all the time, yes, but the risk should be because the vehicle of investment is volatile, not because your manager is taking your money (not just his commission) and buying yachts with it. Finally, I would argue that lives are being ruined, and not just bankers' careers. A variety of charities and pension funds have lost a huge amount of money, many of them forced to close. The lives that they would have helped will now have to turn elsewhere, and in this kind of economy there might be no one to turn to at all. How many mouths will go hungry, how many medical conditions untreated, how many elderly deprived of their pensions because of this theft? Just you can't point fingers at a corpse or victim doesn't mean no one is being harmed. I think your greater contempt for rape or murder is based on disgust at the violence, which I share, but which should not be the sole criteria for the severity of the crime. Madoff’s crime is a big deal and you can’t brush it off as mundane.

First, it’s $50 billion. I know we’re getting jaded with big numbers thrown about with bailouts and bankruptcies happening everyday, but $50 billion is an unimaginable amount of money to steal.

Second, he STOLE the money. People lose money in investments all the time, yes, but the risk should be because the vehicle of investment is volatile, not because your manager is taking your money (not just his commission) and buying yachts with it.

Finally, I would argue that lives are being ruined, and not just bankers’ careers. A variety of charities and pension funds have lost a huge amount of money, many of them forced to close. The lives that they would have helped will now have to turn elsewhere, and in this kind of economy there might be no one to turn to at all. How many mouths will go hungry, how many medical conditions untreated, how many elderly deprived of their pensions because of this theft? Just you can’t point fingers at a corpse or victim doesn’t mean no one is being harmed.

]]> By: Moritz http://www.therandomoracle.com/2008/12/off-with-his-head/#comment-83 Moritz Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:30:16 +0000 http://www.therandomoracle.com/?p=248#comment-83 I thought the big money behind his Ponzi scheme came from banks across Europe which may or may not go bankrupt in the future. If they go bankrupt, there will be many reasons, not just Madoff. So, I think you will have a hard time actually pointing out a group of individuals whose lives were "ruined" solely by Madoff. Notice that those who invested in Madoff's hedge funds knew they were taking a high risk ignoring warnings by other analysts. As Krugman points out, those individuals were likely to lose their money elsewhere, too. Therefore I totally disagree with your claim that Madoff's crime was "far greater than any single act of violent crime". I have much greater contempt for any act of rape and murder. No one lost their lives, their sanity or their health due to Madoff's actions. They lost part of their money and in the worst case their job. Big deal. Happens all the time. The dude will sit in prison for the rest of his life. I thought the big money behind his Ponzi scheme came from banks across Europe which may or may not go bankrupt in the future. If they go bankrupt, there will be many reasons, not just Madoff. So, I think you will have a hard time actually pointing out a group of individuals whose lives were “ruined” solely by Madoff. Notice that those who invested in Madoff’s hedge funds knew they were taking a high risk ignoring warnings by other analysts. As Krugman points out, those individuals were likely to lose their money elsewhere, too.

Therefore I totally disagree with your claim that Madoff’s crime was “far greater than any single act of violent crime”. I have much greater contempt for any act of rape and murder. No one lost their lives, their sanity or their health due to Madoff’s actions. They lost part of their money and in the worst case their job. Big deal. Happens all the time. The dude will sit in prison for the rest of his life.

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